Wednesday, 12 October 2011

How-To Wall with TSM

If you dont ask you wont receive, that's one of Critical's mottos. Because you asked how do you correctly wall with TSM (well not really but for the purpose of this post let's say I3ig Al did), here you go.

Today's post will focus only on how to do multiple walls neatly using TSM (like in the pic!). Not pros and cons or when to wall and why etc.

FYI Critical had the same problem I3ig Al described but eventually figured it out. The correct way to force TSM to make multiple walls is, start with the lowest price wall first. I believe your problem I3ig Al is because you started with highest price wall. TSM is designed to not undercut yourself ie if u do the 50g wall first AND for a particular glyph your 50g is the lowest, TSM wont post that glyph at 40g (obviously it wont do the 30g as well).

The below is for everyone else new to TSM walling. Using I3ig Al's example (3 glyphs x 3 walls @ 30g, 40g and 50g) lets get started.

- remove everything from AH
- make sure u have 9 of all glyphs (3 x 3)

Step 1: set your TSM Auction settings for your glyph group as follows:
post time - 48hrs
Post cap - 3
Per auction - 1
Undercut by - 200g
Price threshold - 30g
Fallback price - 30g
Reset Method - threshold or fallback (either works, I think ...)

Step 2: Post first wall of 30g glyphs!

Step 3: Change the following only, no change to the other settings:
Price threshold - 40g
Fallback price - 40g

Step 4: Post second wall of 40g glyphs!

Step 5: Change the following only, no change to the other settings:
Price threshold - 50g
Fallback price - 50g

Step 6: Post third wall of 50g glyphs!

Step 7: Repeat 1 to 6 with SellerB

End result should be 3 solid walls @ 30, 40 and 50g neatly and tidily for 48hrs. Remember this is just a how to guide. Critical has already covered what are walls. When and why to wall is a different discussion for another rainy day /yawn. Nite nite.

PS: Critical doesnt use TSM_Shopping but cant hurt to try thanks Faid (another day though, cant control these yawns).


  1. Thanks Critical! This did work, I'm guessing because I did it high to low most of the glyphs didn't want to undercut myself.

    My 20g wall is producing some results I suppose. Lots and lots of "Class Pack" sales as people filled out their collection, no buyouts. Several competitors either didn't get on and post or won't post below their threshold.

    One competitor undercut to 19.99g and even down to 14.99g after I was undercut by several unknowns trying to offload some leveling glyphs.

    Everything is down and reposted at 3x3 to see what happens tomorrow.

  2. Update and something to think about for you Critical.

    walls at 20 30 40, 3 each. 90% of this is still undercut by a copper. sold 30 glyphs all day.

    I'm 99% sure that nobody is undercutting because they can beat my bottom line, they just didnt bother setting smart thresholds. 5 different names undercut me, 2 of which I know are the same person, not sure about the other 3.

    Should I just keep it up for a week or two and they will finally wake up to crappy profits?

  3. You gotta consider for most scribes cost per glyph is under 10g each after factoring in inferno ink value. 20g is still 100% profit. Any dedicated scribe can undercut that for as long he has the will to do it.

    The true value of walls is for discouraging competition, particularly over the long term.

    While 20g may be 100% profit it's still only 10g or so per glyph. After a while someone who's used to make much bigger profits and having to work his butt off to keep your wall undercut might start to question whether it's worth it.

    They might all undercut your 20g glyphs but they'll drive the price even lower doing so. One they run out of current stock many of them will start slacking, not bothering to post as often or even restock sold out glyphs.

  4. BTW I should add if you have a lot of stock and post frequently you're better off posting single walls. You can make a lot of gold off someone trying to buy you out and rest prices that way.

    For example you post a 30g wall 4 of each glyph... A few days later someone tries to buyout and reset to 200 or 300g... An hour later you post another wall at 40g or 50g... He buys those out, you repost another wall at 75g... and so on until he starts undercutting, then you post another 30g wall and leave all the others up.

  5. Thanks Mox.

    @Al: glad to hear it worked for u. Just some quick responses whilst Critical is having his fancy cuppachino...

    1. I don't know your goals or your server or your competitors, not appropriate to advise.

    2. Decide what u want to achieve. Then use Walls or any other methods or techniques if it helps u achieve your goal.

    Critical methods are like a surgical knife, excellent in certain situations but can be dangerous if u wave it around uncontrolled. The good thing is you have excellent observation skills, walls are perfect for flushing out your real competitors out among the non serious glyphers.

  6. The cost for blackfallow inks is based on their sales price, not the cost of herbs.

    Similarly the cost for inferno inks is based on their sale price.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch, nor is there such thing as a free ink. If you disagree, I will be happy to buy your free blackfallow inks for 2g each. Thats a clear easy profit for you; gold for free.

  7. thanks for the responses guys!

    Mox, I don't see how glyphs are costing 10g each. If i get a nice deal on herbs I can see it going down that low, but twice a day I buy everything I see until TSM says the prices at 7g/ink.

    I use the "inferno ink are free" accounting method, and throw them into darkmoon cards for pure profit. I'm open to suggestions on how I can change my valuations and lower the threshold on my glyphs.


    my realm is Kilrogg Alliance if you care to take a look. I am Glyphmaster :D Missile and UI are the same, my most persistent competitor. Bottomless is the next in line but hes rather casual about it. other names are too small/infrequent to be of major consequence.

    My ultimate goal is to crush the hopes and dreams of anyone that considers glyphs. I used to have 90% of the market during mid/late Wrath and took a 3month vacation from the game just after Cata released; I want my pie back. I don't want to take massive losses but breaking even or going down a bit is fine with me.

    I have a 300k reserve that I am willing to put into use, and it is my desire to dominate once again.

  8. I3ig of course it depends on the price of herbs on your server but according to TuJ the median price of whiptail on all servers is around 40g and inferno ink around 20g (actually a few g more but 20g is a nice round number to work with).

    One stack of whiptail will give you 6 Blackfallow Ink and 1 Inferno ink. The herbs cost you 40g, the Inferno Ink sells for 20g. To break even on your herb costs you need to get another 20g from the Blackfallow Ink and that comes out to 3 1/3 gold per ink.

    The numbers are a little different for Cinderbloom and Stormvine but the ink costs work out the same in the end. Other herbs are usually much more valuable for other uses than milling.

    And of course who buys herbs at the median price? On my server the median price of whiptail is a bit lower around 35g but I usually get it for 25-30g sometimes even less. Inferno Ink usually sells for only 10-15g though I don't sell mine that cheap. If I did sell my Inferno Ink that cheaply and paid that much for whiptail that'd still put my Blackfallow cost the same... My actual cost is even less.

    From what you said I get the impression you want to get the herb money back from your Blackfallow and make your profits from DMCs. There's nothing wrong with that, a lot of scribes look at it that way. But that doesn't mean your Blackfallow Ink cost is 1/6th the price of a stack of herbs either.

  9. Foo, cost and price are not the same thing. If I found someone willing to sell ink at his cost to make it I too would gladly buy all his ink and never mill another herb.

  10. Mox, thanks for the discussion :)

    on paper I agree with you, sell the inferno for 20g and the six blackfallow cover the other 20g.

    In practice however I find this not very effective. the average price for whiptail on my realm is 25g and Inferno Ink are ~21g each.

    I cant hardly give away my inferno ink most of the time, let alone sell it in bulk for AH prices, or a heavy discount on AH prices. herbs are so plentiful that the only people using Inferno (scribes) already have alot of it.

    Atleast in my case, it's not viable to count inferno as the primary cover for my herb cost. Therefore, I calculate my blackfallow as 100% cost of herbs, sold in glyphs and fortune cards. the resulting inferno could be thrown out for all I care, but it gets used for darkmoon cards as long as I can get a good deal on volatiles.

    Sorry critical for going offtopic!

  11. Ok Al, have spent a few minutes looking at prices on your server (and gut feel comparing to Tich prices). I can see why Mox talked about 10g glyphs on your server.

    - herb prices are super low, 25g per whiptail stack.
    - volatile lifes are high at 10g.

    Using Critical's special calculator and those 2 numbers above, this is what Critical gets:
    Glyph craft cost = 5.19g per glyph
    DM trinket craft cost = 3,650g per trinket

    Your server still has high DM trinket sell prices (due to high life price). Lets add all 5 trinket prices and divide by 5 to get an average sell price.
    Tsunami = 10,000
    Volcano = 7,500
    Hurricane = 7,000
    Hurricane = 6,500
    Earthquake = 3,000
    TOTAL = 34,000
    Average = 34,000/5 = 6,800g

    Doing these calcs with your server prices confirms Critical's repeating advice again: dont sell infernos/cards/decks. Make and sell DM trinkets, even this late in the game.

    Good spotting with matching Missile and Ui. I think Bottomless may be more of a threat of the 2 because he makes and sells DM trinkets. Strong glyphers understand the profits with DM trinkets.

    My advice? If u want to aggressively drive out competition go with floors and walls (the old Critical method). If you want to passively/patiently block and as a result slowly drive out competition then go with multiple solid walls.

    Both methods drive out weak and average glyphers (who only think about the Selling aspect of glyphs). To drive out strong glyphers you need to have better Buyers and Makers on your team. I hope this last paragraph makes sense.

    Thanks all for fantastic comments. Happy to see readers who understand mad Critical speak.

  12. To get a DM trinket cost 3650, with 10g volatile life; you are pricing inferno ink at around 15g. You are also discounting the inevitable card wastage that happens.

    With the abouve, and having whiptail stacks at 25g; You also are pricing inks around 1.5g.

    The kicker is you placing no value on your milling time; it is free.

    I have higher prices as base costs for glyphs and trinkets. If I am going to mill, I am going to be paid for it.

    You can easily sell blackfallow inks at 4g each; putting your minimum cost for glyphs at 12g

    However, if you have no value on your time; you could also go quest and use the gold to buy pre-made inks - after all the time you spend questing to earn gold is also free.

  13. Exactly! I dont need/require/demand a certain wage before I start working on my glyph business. If we both go down tight profit margins, I focus on my long term goal of market domination and stay in, while you focus on your goal of getting a good wage and step out.

    Good ol' Robert Kiyosaki, my personal advisor on dominating glyphs:

  14. this did not work for me...TSM will not post my glyphs at 30g - there are currently auctions for 18 gold and I tried the method above and they would not post.

    Basically, I don't want to post below 30g even if there are auctions on for 18 right now. following Step 1 - this did not post any Auctions of the 9 glyph types that I have.

  15. Thx, works 4 me! Also checkout my lvl-ing & gold guide website.


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